22. June 2008 by Frank.

Back in the nineties before the stroke, I was actively involved with LeSea, Lester Sumrall ministries. Dr. Sumrall was still alive. He was quite an inspiration to me for a few years before I began experiencing things at his church that ultimately alienated me from the word of faith movement specifically and pentecostalism in general. While there I had opportunity to see several big time televangelists when they were just hitting their stride. Among them were Rod Parsley, Oral and Richard Roberts, Benny Hinn, Dwight Thompson, Kenneth Copeland, and dozens of others. Regardless of what you may think of these people’s type of Christianity, they were extremely popular and influential. I was very impressed with several of them until I got a little too close and saw and heard things that ruined my faith in the things they taught.

I’m sure you’ve probably heard about the guy who was “slain in the spirit” but there was no one to catch him so now he’s suing the church for a few million? I experienced the exact same thing many years ago but it never occurred to me to sue anybody. The whole “slain in the spirit” thing was rather odd in the first place. There is no mention of it in the Bible. Yet many spirit filled services feature the experience. The first time I ever went up for such a prayer, I was dropped to the floor instantly (and someone caught me). But as I lay there I kept wondering why God wasn’t giving me an answer. In fact, all I got was a blood pressure headache. The second time I went for such a prayer, I staggered back but didn’t fall. God still didn’t answer my request. On the third time I went up, I staggered momentarily and then fell backwards. But I was too slow. The ushers had already moved on down the line. The one nearest to me looked down at me and laughed. I had the wind knocked out of me and I had banged my head, at least the floor was carpeted. It was not funny.

But this sort of thing continued, people would fall down all the time. And get up praising God.

I decided to try it again. But I resolved that I wasn’t going to fall and I didn’t. I did it a few more times just to be sure. No falling. No answers, either. In fact, I never got any kind of answer through this kind of prayer and the laying on of hands. I rather seriously doubted anyone else was either. I came to the conclusion that people were falling down because they wanted to, they were making the decision to fall before they were ever prayed for because they were just like me, they wanted to experience the power. Falling down was what you were supposed to do so that’s what we did.

Even though I never got an answer, I also never decided that God was at fault. It had to be my fault. I was trained real thoroughly never to blame God for failing to deliver on one of his promises. Since this wasn’t in the Bible I couldn’t very well hold him accountable for my failures now could I? I often wondered why pastors and preachers would indulge in this sort of thing but I had too much respect for them to wonder too much. I usually shrugged it off as something I obviously didn’t fully understand yet.

Another time there was a laying on of hands service (these were actually quite frequent), it was during a televised service. Sumrall had an army of ministers who did the actual praying and laying on of hands down on the floor level while he stayed up on the platform. One of these guys had the audacity to call him over specifically to pray for some elderly people who had travelled a long way to see him. Sumrall did as requested but immediately went to his head elder and ordered him to straighten the guy out who called him over because no one calls him down from the platform ever. He did not know his microphone was still on. I heard it plain as day. I’m sure they cut the sound on the broadcast but it was still on in the cathedral.

I was somewhat shocked.

I could write a book about all the bizarre things I saw and heard there. One thing that was really unusual was that the Sumrall’s insisted several times that the only people allowed to preach in their church had to have the credentials, small fries need not apply. And yet they allowed some moron whose name I can’t remember come in and preach about the joy of the lord. “What’s wrong with that?” you ask. Well, it seems that unless you felt free to act like an idiot in church you would never know the joy of the lord. Specifically, if you didn’t come down front and SKIP around the platform like a little kid, you weren’t free in the spirit and you wouldn’t ever know the joy. This idiot preacher then led the more disturbed members of the congregation in skipping around the platform several times while everyone else stood there wondering what on earth was going on. Strange and affected behavior seems to go hand in hand with “spirit” filled churches. I’ve seen people running up and down the aisles, flapping their arms like a bird shouting the praises of god. I’ve seen people who seemed normal enough the rest of the time, genuflecting in very spastic manners during worship services. Even in my most gung ho days, I thought they were idiots.

Which is why I tried to teach a more refined method of using spiritual gifts a few years later. By then I was convinced that all the bizarre behavior wasn’t a matter of god doing it, it was the personality of the person coming through. Like I mentioned elsewhere, I taught on the subject for over a year before I quit the church after my stroke. Do you know what the result of that year’s worth of non-emotional proper behavior teaching was? The church decided they had to have a spiritual dance team because dancing in the spirit was what they wanted to do to show they had the spirit. How spirit dancing was supposed to build up the church I have no idea. That particular pastor later ended up in a psychiatric hospital.

You never see this sort of thing in churches where they don’t preach and teach it. Sumrall was big on casting out demons. The demon possessed were brought to services frequently where frequently quite a show was put on in the casting out of such demons. Other times it was a bit of a non-event. But not once did anything like that or even remotely resembling that ever happen at a Baptist church. Obviously, no one ever gets slain in the spirit or speaks in tongues or runs around the altar in a Baptist church either. No one ever dances (in fact dancing is usually condemned), flaps their arms, or spazzes out. It’s almost impossible to even get a hearty “Amen” out of most of them.

So why does this stuff go on in some circles? Is it the spirit of god? Or is it just misguided, overly emotional people who come because they have permission to act out their behavior problems? All I know is let someone drop you on the floor sometime and see how much you want to do it again.

You have to wonder why god wants idiots as followers.

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8. June 2008 by Frank.

Please take a look at those buttons up at the top of the page.

HOME is exactly what you think it is.

ABOUT ME is the condensed version of my life, just a little history.

THE STROKE is a long page describing what happened to me during the stroke I endured ten years ago. This is the key event which defines my life. All my views about life in general and religion in particular originate at that point in my life. Understand that and you understand me.

THE AFTERMATH describes what happened the first few months afterwards when my entire world was turned upside down.

Please give them a look if you want to learn what motivates this blog.

Thanks, Frank DN

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1. June 2008 by Frank.

Because my best friend is a devout Seventh Day Adventist I get exposed to my fair share of SDA preaching and teaching whether I want it or not. While I have found the SDA to be very impressive in their knowledge of the bible, they actually take studying it very seriously, I have also noticed their fanaticism about their dogmas. Particularly in regard to keeping the sabbath.

The frequency which this dogma is preached is rather disturbing. It seems to be brought up constantly whether it has anything to do with the topic or not. You might not hear them claiming to be the one true church but you will hear them claiming that only those who properly keep the sabbath have god’s seal of approval. In fact, keeping the sabbath is god’s seal. So all you people worshiping on Sunday are in active disobedience to god. He will only let you off the hook for so long. Once you hear the truth and fail to convert, well, you’re screwed.

Many mainline denominations consider the SDA church to be a cult because of this dogmatic fanaticism.

The SDA is right about it, however, god never changed the sabbath to Sunday. You can’t find any verse in any bible which says or implies that he did. The preaching I heard Friday night pointed out how people of various denominations want the 10 commandments publicly displayed in schools and government buildings and how they believe they’re the basis of law in this country (which they aren’t) but feel it’s necessary to obey 9 of them but neglect the one that plainly says to remember it.

Good point. But what about the penalty for not keeping the sabbath? Oh yeah, we’re all going to hell but what was the biblical penalty? Even picking up sticks on the sabbath got you stoned to death. Why is it we’re supposed to live by the commandments but somehow don’t have to obey the penalty? Seriously, if churches really want to obey the laws of god they should be killing people all the time. Numbers 15 vs 35, “Then the LORD said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp..”

Of course, this conflicts with “Thou shalt not kill.” Unless god says to do it. Which he does quite a bit. Look at Exodus and Leviticus. Kill someone? Punishment: death. Hit your father or mother: death. Steal a slave and sell him: death. Curse father or mother: death. Sex with animals: death. Do any work on the sabbath: death. Adultery: both put to death. Sex with your father’s wife: death. Sex with daughter in law: death. Homosexual: death. Witch or wizard: death. Blaspheme the name of the Lord: death. Come near the temple as a stranger: death. You get the idea.

For that matter, how is it that god freed the slaves from bondage in Egypt but by the time he gave them the commandments, especially the 4^th one, these former slaves already had menservants and maidservants? It says they aren’t supposed to work either. How is it that people longing to be free of slavery already have slaves of their own? And god approves of it to such an extent that he gives instructions for how they are to be treated?

The SDA church strongly believes in keeping the sabbath. Yet you don’t see them out and about killing all the heathens who work on the sabbath. They aren’t supposed to do any work and yet they will watch their religious programming on their SDA TV stations which wouldn’t be on the air unless someone was working. And they make exceptions for doctors, nurses, police, firemen, anybody in emergency type work, despite the fact that god doesn’t.

Any denomination you go to does this same pick and choose routine only with different emphasis. We believe in the 10 commandments but Sunday is our sabbath. We go out to dinner with no thought of all those people who deserve to die because they are working. It’s OK as long as they’re waiting on us (which is clearly a violation, servants get to rest, too). I suppose I shouldn’t mention watching football, baseball, soccer, etc., despite the fact all those people are working and not concentrating on god. I mowed my yard yesterday. I’m sure the penalty for that is death or at least it would have been if they had lawn mowers a few thousand years ago. But the question has to be the same. If keeping the sabbath is still required to please god why isn’t killing the violators?

I’m not being facetious. One of the points the SDA preacher was very adamant about was that Jesus said not one jot or tittle of the law would pass away until the very end of time. If you love god you obey his commands. No ifs, ands, or buts. The commands of god are still in effect. All true according to the New Testament.

If the offenders were to be put to death then, why aren’t they now?

Oh, you say, those are ceremonial laws, they have passed away. Here we go with picking and choosing. What’s different about this and declaring that spiritual gifts (particularly tongues) were for then but not for now? How is it women weren’t supposed to wear makeup then but it’s OK now unless you belong to certain churches? As a matter of fact, how is it women are even allowed to speak in church (including the SDA) when I can clearly show you that Paul didn’t allow it and that god would make it clear to you if you felt otherwise?

Picking and choosing. The cornerstone of Christianity.

Posted in interpretation, wild guesses, hearing, religion | Print | 1 Comment »